Tuesday, March 19, 2013

advice to teachers & younger students

Students and teachers who haven't worked Open Source Learning-style may not be aware that their work is visible to the entire community and the public. They also may not be aware that "resources" such as Spark Notes are often "full of sh*t."

What would you say to a student who is tempted to pass someone else's thinking off as her own without realizing how embarrassing it will be when everyone sees it? For freshmen and sophomores, should teachers continue to "police" students or should students be responsible for themselves & each other?

Please comment to this post with your thoughts.

47 comments:

  1. Usually, as a student, I see my style as unique enough so that when I steal ideas, it's obvious and easily identified. People will find out, and if caught, will change.

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  2. This question is difficult for me because I've always been independent/ responsible for my work. My parents encourage me of course but consequences for bad grades or the like was more in my own realm. I would be the one disappointed or dissatisfied in myself. I can see how others perceive the need for incessant nagging of students in order to make them be honest and do their own efforts but therein lies the problem. We shouldn't be thinking of how to make, force students to learn we should be endeavor to inspire them to want to.

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  3. I would like to start off by giving some examples of the consequences to that question. You see, growing up my mother was not really "all there" thus I mainly grew up on my own. And it is with this that I can fully say " a life with out structure leads to a life with out knowledge." By this I mean you can never really make your own choices. And though I suppose you can, you will never really understand what is right and wrong with out someone having taught you along the way. Yet I also know from an opposing and very restrictive father (who again was not "all there") That a life that is smothered in constraint will lead to an unhealthy lack of independence. You need a balance. One which has structure but allows you to go off in your own way about it. Just like Dr. Preston's AP English Literature class. Yet then again there will always be those that cheat (not the system) but themselves through out this process. Perhaps they have not accepted the full responsibility of their freedoms, perhaps they have been too sheltered, too boxed in ... who knows. All I know is that this is something you must overcome within yourself. And I truly hope you do one day. As of now though, try to expand your minds and remember the world is yours to conquer. But never forget there is help in others along the way!

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  4. Students will get caught one day, that's all there is to it. Yes, some students will get by here and there, but they are only hurting themselves. When the time comes to prove your capabilities, you'll have nothing to show for yourself. You'll have fabulous work, but no reason for why it is the way it is. Then you will get caught, and look rather stupid.

    I feel that there should be a happy medium between "policing", and students taking responsibility for themselves. Teachers should be mindful, but not act as a helicopter around the students. Students should be responsible and accept the fact that honesty is the best policy. It may not be the most popular decision, but it's the best. When the time comes where you are on your without a cheating device, you'll fail miserably.

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  5. Answering from my phone, accepting the challenge. So to those of you who love to abandon all thought process out of pure laziness and substitute it with someone else's, know that you will NEVER feel any satisfication after doing so. Your imput is something you can only claim. It's so important to share your ideas and opinions because what would you be without it? You wouldn't be interesting. We need interesting people out there. And having your treachers keep on you for that is pretty embarrassing. Teach yourself by distributing your thoughts into your work. Seriously, it's not hard. I think that this lesson needs to be self taught. It's learning from those mistakes and making corrections. Anyway, that's how I feel about it.

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  6. Simply put do your own work and you won't need to worry about being caught, most assignments can be done quickly with just an ounce of thought put into them, mind you its always good to put alot of thought into things. But its easier to spend 10 minutes and do an assignment rather then spend an hour getting lectured on the importance of doing your own work.

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  7. I feel that if you're already looking through somebody's work, you might as well take the time to read through it and use their ideas to formulate your own--don't just look at the first word, copy, and paste. That way, you might as well not even do the work at all; you won't have learned anything and you will just look silly for having done it. Do not simply copy his/her ideas; you're bound to have your own opinion on their words (if you actually read it), so why not just figure it out from there? Just like we talk about in class: there is no problem with bouncing ideas off of each other or taking a look at outside sources (blogs and other websites), but you're not going to get anything out of just copying something down. Also, it would be great to think that teachers didn't have to play cops-n-robbers with their students, chasing them around and trying to catch their plagiarism, but at I also feel that it is probably not possible to just let it slide completely, at least with all classes. We also discussed this very briefly in class: students can and will recognize it when somebody copies work. They certainly don't need to be looking for it all the time, but when they do notice it, the false 'author' should be approached at some point. Perhaps s/he wouldn't mind reading over what s/he had copied and writing up something along the lines of the original assignment, comparing his/her own, true thoughts to those s/he had copied?

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  8. It will be quite evident that your words online don't match up with your words in person, and who better to point that out and embarass you for it than Preston. I don't know exactly where I stand on the whole "policing" of sophomores and freshmen. One side of me wants to cheer for believing in young people and the other side thinks of all the lazy adolescents that would love this oppurtunity to cheat. Being an adolescent isn't what gives them the "lazy" attribute, I'm just in high school so all I see is young kids. I guess I would say there's no harm in peaceful monitoring. Just check in every once and while and take notice of the kids who are obviously not speaking from their own minds.

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  9. In my opinion, Open Source Learning endorses and promotes collaborative learning in a way that has never been taught to us before. We've become the movers and shakers of our education therefore instead of persecuting those who try to take another person's idea and trying to pass it off as their own, we should help each other. Taking the reigns to our education not only means creating our curriculum but also assisting and teaching each other when we need assistance. Open Source Learning is meant to remove the barriers students have between each other when it comes to education and create an open dialogue for not only the students but outside influences who are experts in the subject. In my opinion, we shouldn't be trying to teach the students how to be responsible for themselves or each other, we should teach freshman and sophomores how to collaborate and inevitably they will learn to be responsible because they don't want to let their peers down when they are depending on them.

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  10. There isn't any right or wrong answer of an open question or a question asks for personal opinion; so why bother to copy and paste? In addition, for whoever borrows and gets ideas from others, you really miss out the fun part of open source learning and usage of blog. I like to read other’ blog, because they represents every single one of us as individual. It's our works and efforts; right there! Secondly, it is just obvious if you just copy and paste from others. And when someone has to get to that point, you just need to take the consequences and learn from it.

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  11. The beauty of collaboration is that you CAN use other people's work to make your own better/ validate your own work / make sure you're comprehending the material. I think the folly lies in the plagiarism. If you're going to cite someone elses work, at least give them CREDIT. don't be dumb about it, is my advice.

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  12. I'm sure every student who has been tempted to copy off another's work and use it as theirs feels guilty for thinking it, or even going through with it. It's not wrong to look at other sources and other works for guidance, but not doing your own work in your own words doesn't give you that sense of accomplishment, and you could get in big trouble. But teachers shouldn't be "policing" these students, watching their every move to make sure they get the work done. That kind of puts pressure on a student to get their work done no matter how they do it. Students should be given the chance to use open-source learning responsibly and honestly, and not have teachers breathing down their necks.

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  13. To use someone else's work and claim credit is horrible, in fact plagiarism is a crime in most cases. HOWEVER the point of open source learning (well at least how I see it) is for students to collaborate on assignments. With their permission, it is entirely reasonable to use others' work as long as you contribute to their work as well and not try and pass their work off as your own. Especially if it is for credit.

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  14. I believe there needs to be one big enforcer of the group weather it be the old naggy teacher or the proactive student, someone should recognize that it's copied and talk to him/her but they don't need to be ridiculed in public. In a way their cutting off their own creativity and essentially not putting enough Faith into themselves.

    But on the other hand if your going to copy the entire article, post whatever it may be, give the other credit for it. Although it probably won't get you credit for Jack sh!t it's a good way to bring in examples of things and back up your ideas/thoughts.

    And we're all old enough now to know it's wrong, and to recognize who's work was really done by that person or another. So I would compare it to pulling your pants down in public if and when you get called out for it. So do you really want to be standing there bare ass because I don't think your friends would help justify what your reasoning was for doing that, nor would they back you up on plagiarizing.

    But that's just my opinion.

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  15. Just as Beka stated working in a collaborative working group allows you to use other people's work for your benifit but not if it means "copy" and "pasting" their work to get credit on an assignment that you didn't do. And even if you don't "copy" and "paste" their work, but you still used it in some way, give them credit for helping you. Being collaborative is all about helping each other and working with each other to get the job done, not about plagiarism.

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  16. I believe that no matter how much teachers try to crack down on people for copying or stealing someones work, the people that are truly that lazy and apathetic about their education will find away to take the easy road out. I think that our efforts would be much more significant if instead of trying to prevent people from copying and cheating, we just tried to motivate the students to take pride in what they are doing and to establish a sense of accomplishment when you complete a task on your own.

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  17. Students should be responsible for their actions, my only problem is how to get that message across to people. Some of them will say "oh no I'm totally responsible already!" when in fact the opposite couldn't be any more true.

    If you're gonna steal, then at least be decent enough to be smart about how you steal and how much you steal. I'm not about to harangue you for your actions. If you want to steal, then go ahead and steal. Just don't make me to say "I told you so!" when you face the consequences of what you chose.

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  18. I think it would be hard for the to be able to police the students all the time and catch every student copying and pasting. So I feel that it would be mainly up to the students to see and catch the person doing so, since we do go on each other's blogs quite often.

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  19. I think for future freshmen and sophomores who will take the course and experience open source learning, they should be able to take responsibilities for their work. They need to get over the fact that they are taking the easy way out and being sneaky, just say you copied their work because it was way better than you could have done. Just be sure to teach the students to give the creators the credit and attention they deserve for THEIR work. Teachers shouldn't have to be a police, as far as we know, "copying" is going to happen no matter what, and acting like a police will make the students want to act sneeakier, so let's just collaborate... Open source meaning a lot of things are fair game, working together and getting feed back from colleagues is much easier. I think the one thing teachers should really push is individuality, open source learning is possibly one of the greatest ways to prove yourself as an individual academically. By looking at yourr blog, you can tell in some form, what the person is like, so feeling comfortable expressing yourself may help people from stopping to copy other's work and do something that you actuallu like or agree with.

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  20. If teachers can police students for plagiarism then we should be able to do the same to them. This question leans more towards the assumption that students alone are the deceivers, however almost our entire educational system is plagiarized. I can easily name off 10 teachers who have used testing materials from AP Central as their own test or essay topic (and that's not counting other sources of teaching materials). How can they expect to prevent it when they themselves are plagiarizing, it's hypocritical...also I feel like plagiarism is inevitable with collaboration. In fact the two are almost synonymous. With collaboration we "share" our ideas with one another or simply put: take other people's ideas (sounds pretty similar to plagiarism if you ask me). I fail to see the difference besides the fact that we personally know the people we are stealing from when we collaborate where as when we plagiarize off the Internet we may not know that author. In both cases we take someone's ideas, and in both cases we don't give credit to the original author/thinker. But back to the actual question: I don't think teachers should police because if I were a teacher I would find it a waste of time, mainly because I would be too lazy to check every assignment turned in but also because I feel that karma would take care of it for me. If the student plagiarizes then he will only hurt himself by taking these shortcuts and in the long run it will come back to burn him. What goes around comes back around...

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    Replies
    1. Ha! Absolutely. Somewhere Kirby Ferguson is smiling. For the record, I've tried to cite my sources here and in print, but if I've missed something please call me on it.

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  21. Teachers and students dont collaborate on many things because students are meant to learn from the teachers and not the other way around. In Ap English we have prove that we can collaboate with the teacher to be successful students. I really didnt understood the question about the police. Well in my opinion I think that freshmen and sophomores need a little help here and there because they dont have it all together yet. But their some that are doing the right thing.

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  22. I could care less if a student got hold of his friend's math homework and decided to copy it because honestly, I would probably never know, and the way things are going in our generations, copying someone's homework never really did any harm. With that said, I do feel that this online experience is a different. With math, only your friend, teacher, and yourself would know, but with blogs and open source learning, the whole world is looking whether it's 20 classmates or the millions of people searching for "blog" in Google everyday. What I have to say is... DON'T MAKE A HABIT OF IT!

    I use Facebook a lot, in fact, I'm on it constantly, and every single time I see a status from a underclassmen that reads "Ugh, I have senioritis already!" I just laugh a little to myself inside because one, it really sucks for them considering that their Senior year will be the busiest year yet, and two because they are still 2 or 3 years too early to be feeling that. That just tells me that high school students can be really lazy and because of that, I feel like the learning that Dr. Preston promotes might not be the best thing for them. It's like that saying that goes "In order to get respect, you need to give it first" except that here, it applies with learning. Before public education takes the leap into open source, online blogging, and educational independence, We have to prove that we are willing to take the opportunities.

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  23. I think there is a difference when it comes to reading some ones work and copying it. I like to read over every ones work because I tend to find that we all have different views and it really widens my thought process. I think viewing others ideas helps you create new ways of thinking and broadens the way you look at whatever it is that you are reading about. In my personal opinion I think you should give the students the benefit of the doubt but when you start to notice a change then that's when you should pull them aside and try to figure out what is going on. As a teacher you can only hope every one is doing the right thing.

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  24. Well I think it's like how you teach little kids not to steal and cheat (Yes we high school students aren't very mature yet and are still children). Yes it would be nice if they just stopped on their own but that's not reality.

    You try that on a young child and they will learn to take advantage of that freedom because there are no consequences.

    I don't think there should be a consent policing necessarily because we are more mature than very young children but there still needs to be consequences.

    Relining on other students for that consequence is unlikely to work and ineffective because they have little authority.

    I think it would be a good idea to show the cheating in class every once and a while (2 times a week on the front monitor?) so people know they will be caught eventually and it will be embarrassing.

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  25. The temptation on copying a student's work is rising. If students are going to copy another's work, GIVE THAT PERSON CREDIT. If it's not your work, you don't deserve to call it your own. By having an open source learning, you are available to resources. Being available to resources does not mean to take the short cut, but to see other's ideas and point of views. I believe teachers should get involve when it is brought to them. Most students who see that other's took their work will say something, or just laugh it off. Copying work will help that individual for worksheets, etc. But not knowing what you're talking about in a discission will just make that person feel embarrassment.

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  26. I would tell that student that there is no point in trying to use someone else’s thinking. What really is the point in that? If you are taking the time to use someone else’s thinking then you might as well take the time to say your know thoughts and ideas. It is a special thing to put out your own work because then you could possibly get feedback on it or somehow teach/help someone through what you post without even meaning to. I know that for me nothing on my blog is copied from someone else’s work. What I do is come up with my own work then look at other people’s work and add to what I originally had to improve what I started off with. I rather be behind in posts than wing everything in order to just get it done. When you take the time to put your best work forward the work becomes sort of like a place that you can look at and feel proud and happy of. If you just do things mindlessly then you can’t get the complete experience and enjoyment that comes with doing your own work. In the end the student makes their own choice on whether to use his/her own thinking or not but I would emphasize on the importance and value of doing what you can do without having to go off and claim ideas and thoughts that don’t belong to you. Words reflect on the type of person you are. So, if you want people to get the real you, doing it through your own work is a great way to accomplish that. Teachers shouldn’t have to “police” their students. Teachers are called teachers for a reason. If their job was to just “police” their students then would simply be called “babysitters”. Sometimes it does feel like teachers are babysitting but that is only because students are not taught how to think for themselves or not taught the importance and excitement that comes with sharing your own thoughts with others and then using what you hear from other people to improve the thoughts you started out with. It is annoying when you are always told not to cheat. Yes, cheating is bad but there is a big difference on cheating and collaborating with peers. Cheating is lame and doesn’t benefit you in the long run. Collaborating on the other hand, is a great way to learn and grow from what you have always been trained to do in school. We are told to take notes, do the homework and assignments given, study, and then take the test. No where in there is there time to really share and discuss the different opinions that are out there. There is a lot to be learned from other people so teachers just need to teach their students how to be responsible for themselves and use each other as a resource in the right ways. Students need to be untrained to get trained into a new way of thinking which is open source opening! I could go on and go into more details but this can go on all day so I will decide to stop here.

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  27. With any given human action there is an incentive, and a consequence. Now take the example of "Copy-Paste" plagiarism of work.

    Incentive- Don't have to do any work. Get good grade regardless.
    Consequence- Fail a class if caught.

    Now given these two situations, the higher the chance of the consequence, the less people are willing to commit the action. This consequence should indeed come from an authoritative figure. A fairly easy way to catch, and some sort of system should be in place to prevent this.

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  28. It's pretty easy to tell when someone isn't putting their own ideas online because you can quickly look at what everyone else put down for an assignment and think, "Wow. The eery similarities can't be a coincidence." Plus even if we work together with others to come up with something for our blogs not all of our ideas will be the same, and we generally tell people that we worked with so-and-so on whatever it was. Open sourced learning isn't going to encourage cheating, it's actually going to discourage it because you wants to be thought of as the kid who couldn't even think for themselves on a homework assignment? Frankly high school seems to be more about impressing people, than causing them to have a low opinion of ourselves. Plus we give credit where credit is due. If we had trouble on something and a talk with someone really helped us out, we generally put the whole process of what went on on our blogs. We like to show our learning process.

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  29. Copying of others is wrong, but not if you get ideas off of them. The direct "copy and paste" method is horribly wrong, but using their ideas in addition to your own can strengthen your writing.

    Teachers should decide for themselves. Police the students and make them do the work, or have them embarrass themselves in public.

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  30. Copying of others people work is wrong and shouldn't be done. If you were going to copy and paste at least give the other person the credit by putting it in quotes and addressing where the information is coming from. Teachers should still police kids into doing their own work. But, if the students are able to use other people's information and make it into there own point of view and use the information learned from that person's work into their own then I think that is fine. I would ask the student why he or she tried to pass the writing off as their own. I would try to help them and make them understand that plagiarizer is wrong and help them through the part where they had struggled so that they could learn from the experience.

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  31. When a student copies the work of another, he or she is rarely thinking about consequences beyond "maybe I'll get caught and fail the assignment." Obviously, there is much more to the issue. There is a potential for social consequences (through embarrassment in front of peers) as well as personal (through inhibiting one's own learning). As long as people fail to consider this, there will always be a temptation to copy work.

    The first solution I thought of was to keep the traditional system for early years, then switch to personal responsibility when students are at a more mature age. What this age would be exactly is certainly up for debate. However, this presents another problem. It's rather unproductive to condition students to act a certain way only to change it around a few year later. This was the problem that plagued many people in this class early in the year.

    With this in mind, the best solution would be to change the system early on. At the core of the problem is the fact that cheating in school is generally socially acceptable among students. There's an unspoken rule that students should not rat each other out. Peer pressure is an incredibly potent force, and it doesn't necessarily have to be negative. If it ever became "uncool" to cheat, the problem would likely go away by itself.

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  32. To put it simply, yes there are people out there who copy other peoples work and claim it as our own. Now as a student who does sports and sometimes doesn't have all that much time, it is always tempting to take the easy road and copy someone else's work. But there is one flaw to that perfect plan and that is getting caught. Yes that person might not get caught all the time but eventually karma will take action and that person will get caught. Is it really worth it cheat, get caught, and be punished like taking an F for the semester? Its really not worth the risk. Plus the assignment is there for a reason whether it be for information you need to know for a test or practice for future assignments. So basically all you are doing in the end is cheating yourself out of an advantage and knowledge in your life.

    Now for responsibility. I really don't think that teachers should waste there time with policing students and this topic. Now if they come across it they should point it out but going out of your way to catch students cheating seems kind of a waste of time to me. I know that if I was a teacher I wouldn't really bother because I know that if they decide to cheat that that is their decision and you can't really do anything about it especially since I know that for the short term it seems like a good idea but in the long run it will hurt them. So if they want to hurt themselves by cheating then fine its their decision. Im not encouraging passing off other peoples work as their own and saying that it is a good idea, but they are really only hurting themselves.

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  33. "With any given human action there is an incentive, and a consequence. Now take the example of "Copy-Paste" plagiarism of work.

    Incentive- Don't have to do any work. Get good grade regardless.
    Consequence- Fail a class if caught.

    Now given these two situations, the higher the chance of the consequence, the less people are willing to commit the action. This consequence should indeed come from an authoritative figure. A fairly easy way to catch, and some sort of system should be in place to prevent this." - William Veroski

    For one thing I simply could have just copied and pasted a comment like this to blow off doing this assignment because of me being lazy. Well the reason I decided to do this was to show just how simple it is for someone to appear to have done something for themselves when in reality they are just hurting their learning experience. I think that everyone in the community should help each other no matter if they are student or teacher alike. We all know the temptation of being able to do something the fastest and easiest way but in the end you really are just hurting yourself.

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  34. The act of making someone's work pass as your own is demeaning to the person stealing the work. It only comes to show how limited their brain potential is. They are unable to come up with ideas of their own and use others ideas. Maybe the ideas they steal aren't great but at least they were new. You can definitely steal ideas and maybe even get away with it but there will come a time in which you will have to come up with your own and you won't be able to due to your lack of intellectual potential.

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  35. Being a lazy person and choosing to not do your work, and going ahead in stealing other people's thoughts is just wrong. It gives the plagiarizer a bad rep. and they most likely will loose the faith that teachers/parents once had for them. In the end, if you get caught then it leaves you in a bad position, in making up the assignment and possibly failing the class. I am not gonna lie, it is an easy way out. And dealing with extracurricular activities, your tempted to just sly by for the mean while. But personally know it's sooooo not worth it. So in my opinion, some sleepless nights, would have to be worth if it means I get my assignment done.

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  36. There is a difference between cheating and looking at someone else's work for guidance or inspiration. That's what I have come to love about our network. if I am ever unsure of how to do an assignment, I have over 50 blogs I can look at for help. But there is always the risk of a student simply using the copy and paste features that are so easily accessible on any computer or device. I personally think that the students should police each other with the teacher as the head sheriff. It is always more embarrassing when you get called out by another student. But if it goes unnoticed, the teacher should still instill some sort of consequence to make sure the cheating does not happen again.

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  37. Sometimes, when my ideas are jammed somewhere between my hippocampus and brain stem, I use other people's ideas as kindle for my own work. I never feel guilty because I never say no to helping others. It's a fair trade. What isn't fair(to your own mind) is copying blindly. All you achieve through that process is a skill you should have mastered by first grade: imitation. The only time imitation is okay is when it's imitation baby seal fur*. By repeating another's work, you make yourself the weakest link which isn't okay unless you enjoy the company of rude British women.
    Unfortunately, I believe policing this habit is necessary. The only way to make sure these culprits change is by teaching them that they can create their own substantial thoughts worthy of being copied by their own lazy friends.
    *This isn't really the only time for imitation. Just for the sake of proving my point and mentioning baby seals in my homework.

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  38. I'm sure they know that what they are doing is wrong, but at times you need to look at other people's work to make sure your understanding the right material. The whole "copy & paste" idea is incorrect. A student doesn't need to write word for word if they did the assignment wrong, but if they get ideas to improve their understanding then that's when you see they're doing it correctly. They're not cheating, but merely searching for ways to strengthen their work/ideas/thought process. It also works if someone asks the author why they took that route and where they found those examples. It changes the situation from cheating to collaborating among each other. Teachers should only police if they see a student doing an assignment within a few minutes. That shows they are coping the paper in front of them and losing a proper understanding of the material.

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  39. You can bullshit and cheat all you want but when the real deal comes around I can assure you won't be able to pass. This can be said for the AP Exam, SAT's, and in a job after college.

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  40. Those sites might be used to clarify something in the novel that you might have not understood. In my opinion teachers have little to no influence on preventing students from using sites such as wilkapedia and sparknotes. Based on this I would say students should be held more responsible.

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  41. I think students should be the police because it would effectively teach students the material as many times as they retread the blogs. But in reality, policing is put so low on students' agendas because it isn't a hard assignment that is turned in for credit.

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  42. I believe students should be able to use whatever resources available in order to successfully complete an assignment as long as they are not copying word for word. This applies mainly to assignments known as "busy work". Even if students completed this work on an individual basis, most of the time they are not learning a thing from the assignment, they are simply trying to get points for it. I believe it is ultimately the teachers responsibility to give students assignments and projects where they are forced to learn without the aid of others. Teachers can accomplish this by giving work that actually interests the students!

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  43. The majority of students that tend to use others people work as their own don't do it for the right reasons. People often publish their own work for many reasons including being a resource for other people to help them devolp a better work for themselves. So the students that are simply copying and pasting without acknowledging the true author are technically taking advantage of the original authors good intentions, and sometimes when someone sees their work plagerized they are reluctant to share their work again. It is kinda like a hidden honors system on its own. No one will mind if you use their work to boost your own ideas, and they especially won't mind if you give them credit along with your work as someone who helped you with it. It's actually an excellent way to collaborate. So students who are doing the whole copy thing could easily just take it a step further and actually make their work better.

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  44. Personally, I would let the student cheat, and then announce to everyone the next day that someone was a cheater and expose their cheating ways. As a student, I would ask them what their problem is and why they feel the need to cheat, when all it takes is a little bit of time to create your own work.

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